response to group blogs on the out of bounds church.

Drew.
read Drew's blog here
“It’s not about changing the message so that culture will accept it…it’s about setting a timeless message free by using the language of a culture.”
We do tend to box in the message of Christ—always presenting it in the same format, always doing things the way they have always bee done. Yet, we fail to see any different results. We fail to see changes in people, in behavior. I think many people fear that the message will be changed if it is reformatted in a new way. How much more relevant will we be as followers of Christ, as the church, if we speak in a language people can hear and understand?

Eric.
read Eric's blog here
“The mother (if you will) is scared, terrified of the expected pain and unsure whether she is prepared to be responsible for a new life.”

I think this “mother” is also scared of what the birthed child will look like, the loss of control that comes with new life and it being out of the womb where things are much more predictable, of knowing whether or not she can handle the changes that will inevitably come and will they prove beneficial or harmful to her, and whether she wants to affiliate herself with the free will of this child. What do you see as the biggest fears on the part of the mother? What is it that keeps her holding on and not willing to let go? Is there anything the child in the womb, or the subsequent newborn, can do to alleviate this tension?
I like the continued imagery of the birthing process to include not just the midwife, but the mother and the child in the womb.


Kyle.
read Kyle's blog here
“Incorporating children into worship seems to be a missing element in the work of emerging churches. I think that VC does the best job, so far, that I have seen. They allow for children to participate and use instruments to contribute to the whole worship offering to God. It’s a beautiful sound!”

You made a good point here that I had not thought of in that the emerging church dialogue does not give much conversation to that of children. I know they value children being an integral part of the community but I don’t recall in the conversation where the children are actively involved like what you mentioned at VC.

the out of bounds church and the coffee church community

Steve Taylor, in his book entitled The Out of Bounds Church? provides a plethora of resources—from books, to websites, to personal exercises to engage in, to an array of quotes. This book has proven and will continue to be a valuable resource for me as I seek to live out Christ in the community around me.

Each chapter begins with a postcard. As postcards do, each is written about a trip. Each postcard ends with a question. Each question is investigated in the pages that follow. As I read each postcard, I found myself attempting to answer each question on my own—based on my own tradition, my own experiences. Not only did I analyze these questions for me but also in the context of the coffee church community as well.

Is this the future church, moving into the dying spaces of a church historic?
Coffee church, yes I would say so. It isn’t your traditional space, your traditional format, or your traditional relationships. But authentic? Yes it is. Relevant? Yes. Validated? Yes. Missional? Yes. Incarnate? Yes.

How could the notion of birth, and midwifing birth, apply to the emerging church?
For the coffee church community, this looks somewhat distinct as most members, in their seminary courses, are learning what being in ministry is all about and how to flesh this out. Instead of having their own midwife, it seems as though coffee church is comprised of a group of midwives seeking to birth together. Some are more “experienced” than others, some could care less about every becoming a midwife, some are actively learning and seeking to apply what they have been taught and shown.

What is the place of creativity in the emerging church? What is the impact of a visual faith in our visual world?
I am not sure this question has been fully explored by the coffee church community but the dialogue is starting.

What is the incarnational mission in a world that’s online 24/7?
This question hasn’t been tackled by coffee church as far as I can tell.

What resources exist to help the emerging church build community?
Through the redemptive practices of creating a safe environment in which to be vulnerable, practicing hospitality, sharing lives together, and being Christ-like to those outside the community, coffee church is striving to be community. Coffee church is not so diverse (ethnically, socio-economically, or even interest wise) at the present but I do see the potential for it to be so. It is the desire of the members that all are welcome and included.

How can the emerging church, with integrity, interface community and mission?
I see this question just being raised at a few of the latest gatherings. Issues of mission have been discussed and this dialogue continues. I see the community in the beginning stages of contemplating what the mission will be and how it will be carried out. Much discussion has gone into being a part of the larger community as well as being community to one another. As this conversation continues, action will emerge that evidences the mission behind it.

Is the emerging church starting to “DJ” worship, sampling and mixing video images, contemporary music, and ancient chants to create fresh forms of worship?
No. Coffee church doesn’t actually have a service nor has this been explored at any of the gatherings. What has come close is that at each Friday night community times, something different is done. This ranges from a Bible study, a time of sharing, praying together, game night, or simply just talking. The upcoming community night will be attending a baby dedication (of one of the community members) with dessert following.

To me, the coffee church community is one in which ahi kaa is transpiring. It is a community who seeks to draw strength from one another to live as Christ followers and share their ways of doing so together.

response to group blogs on church re-imagined

Kyle.
read Kyle's blog here.
“Just by the very title of the book gives me hope for the future of the church and it’s attitudes. To be experimental is to be the church. Each of every one of us is experimental at times so our understanding of God, world, and ourselves should be. Every generation has to figure out what it means to be a disciple of Jesus within its historical context.”

If the church is to meet need the needs of the community, then the church should be changing as needs constantly change. But so many times we as a church, and we as a people, fail to change. When we do so, we become complacent and stagnant. I think it takes an introspective and visioneering group of individuals to seek out what it would look like for Jesus to exist in our culture, in our day today. I think many individuals, as well as churches, aren’t willing to take the risk to think and act in this manner.


“They are two communities seeking to be true to their zip code.”

I like this. I think so many of our churches don’t seek to be true to who they are (to those around them), instead seeking to emulate other communities or posing as what they think the community expects them to be. How does VC go about this—knowing what is true to their zip code? Is it simply just living in the community and thus, knowing who they are? Or have they performed some sort of informal or even formal poll, if you will?



Eric.
read Eric's blog here.
“Their commitment to being an incarnational community in urban Minnesota inspires courage and authenticity for those of us who still long for something more than we presently experience. Whether through spiritual gatherings or creative outlets, Pagitt's community is figuring out kingdom life together.”

This is true. I like that they are in process and willing to admit that. I appreciate the honesty in seeking to live authentically and learning what this means along the way. I find that encouraging. It is always easier to live life together than seeking similar things apart.

church re-imagined and the coffee church community

First of all, I really enjoyed the layout of Doug Pagitt’s Church Re-Imagined. I like the unique flavor of the book—that Pagitt outlines what a typical week is like in the life of Solomon’s Porch, how each day represents a core belief the community holds to, and the valuable feedback listed in journal entries from several of the members.

The Tuesday evening gatherings at Solomon’s Porch are where the community as a whole gathers to “work” on that week’s sermon…together. Each person comes with his or her own opinions, backgrounds, and nuances. Each has equal voice to be heard and the freedom to speak. The sermon is compiled as the dialogue takes place. What learning must take place in this meeting time together and also on Sunday as you hear it, as you see it, as you experience it all come together. The application following would be so much more personal in working through and being a vital part of the formation of the sermon. I cannot help but feel this learning would be so much more well served if implemented into our communities.

In speaking of the vitality of living in community, Pagitt states:
Most people come to faith not by an isolated effort but through living day by day with people of faith such as their families or friends. People may not fully understand the beliefs involved, but they learn what the Christian life looks like as they see people to whom they are deeply connected living out the disciplines of prayer, worship, and service (25).
I thought about the coffee church community, who for the most part, live within a two-mile radius of one another (most of who live in the same apartment complex). Family is experienced within the context of daily life. Needs are known and expressed and met by community. Beliefs are shared, accepted, and questioned in the context of a safe environment. Most of the community is seminary students but each is at a different place in his or her own walk with the Lord, some not yet even beginning that journey. People within the community learn from one another in their own beliefs and expressions of those beliefs.

Pagitt goes on to say, “Christian community can and should be context for evangelism and discipleship, a place where faith is professed and lived” (25). In the context of community, both evangelism and discipleship become a natural outgrowth. Just this week, I received an email addressed to all the ladies of coffee church asking about the interest in an all women’s Bible study/fellowship time. I was amazed at the response and how many women expressed this was something they needed. Even though community does exist, these women sensed needing something more, more of being around one another in vulnerable and accountable relationships. Discipleship has simply birthed from being in community with one another.

Pagitt addresses the subject of the consumeristic motives that drive people in looking for churches today. He, nor Solomon’s Porch, resign to this search. Instead, “we ask people to bring to our community their contributions and by their involvement be more life giving” (55). So is the same with coffee church. Each is expected to contribute what they can and in what capacity. Coffee church isn’t concerned with catering to the whims of everyone in order to keep everyone happy. It is a community concerned with offering each other and the world Jesus Christ.

response to group blogs on the shaping of things to come

Kyle.
read Kyle's blog here.
“He was encouraging members to see their lives as consisting of networks. Wherever they go, whoever their with, and whatever their doing can be done as a witness to God’s Kingdom. To me, this seemed to eradicate the insular, attractive, inside-outside dichotomy that pervades so many communities today.”
I read Mike’s blog that you referenced in your recent response. It seems as though he is personally missional and desires the community at large to be missional as well. He definitely encourages them in this vein. Do you see this pervasive dichotomy at VC at all or is it missional from the roots?

Eric.
read Eric's blog here.
“We need to see that the 'church' Jesus created was always meant to be mobile. How? The 'church' was always meant to refer to the people of God, housing the Spirit of God within them, wherever they go.”
I enjoyed your reflection that you shared with your community. I liked the parallel about both God and Jesus being on the move and the challenge we should be as well. I will strive more to see myself as one consecrated who is sent out to be Christ in my own world and one that is always on the move.

Drew.
read Drew's blog here.
“I would love to see an even greater focus however, on shifting towards a more missional way of being the church. In fact, this would even return our large, mega-church back to its roots. As a community that started in a local restaurant over 25 years ago.”
Wow, that is telling. I wonder what caused the leaders of the church to move in the direction they did? Was the restaurant simply a building in which to gather or much more? The “Beyond the Walls” ministry sounds like it truly is helping those in the community. It seems more mission-minded than actually being missional. How can you move a community from being mission-minded to truly being missional? I seem to notice this with mega-churches that I have been apart of…I wonder why that is?

the shaping of things to come and coffee church community.

I found it interesting that the authors of The Shaping of Things to Come, Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch, are not native to the United States but have written about churches in the U.S. I found their perspective refreshing as they have simply written about what they have observed—not with any hidden agenda or personal experience. This outside perspective was very enlightening, as I believe they can see more from an objective viewpoint than what most can see from a native eye.

In one section, Frost and Hirsch address the institution of seminary in how church leaders are being trained to lead churches. From the reading, I am left challenged with the thought that if churches are seeking to think innovatively to reach the present culture for Christ, then why are they continuing to do that which is not working? Frost and Hirsch voice this in terms of seminary as well: “It’s worth asking about the ways Jesus developed disciples during his ministry and then considering to what degree the theological academy has mirrored this. Has the traditional model been effective? In other words, is the medium of the ‘academy’ the right medium for the message of disciple making and mission?” (154). Do the tools that are often learned in our seminary training improve the church—moving it more towards being missional—or continue in the course charted before us?

How aptly this reading applies to the coffee church community, who is comprised mainly of seminary students (and some graduates). It seems that the “churches” the individuals go to aren’t fulfilling so many of their needs. I don’t see many of them being involved in these churches, as one would expect from seminary students. It seems that members of the coffee church community sense something(s) missing, sense something isn’t right. This pervading thought lends itself to the way in which coffee church is set up—with everyone sharing responsibilities, with everyone functioning as a whole (rather than separate parts), and with the learning being participatory (rather than reflexive).

I have also noticed that the vast majority of the members of the coffee church community are not engaged in Christian ministry inside the church (as one might expect of seminary students). But they are engaged in ministry elsewhere—in their world, in their sphere of influence. Their ministry has moved outside the church walls to the classroom as teachers, to social service agencies, to the community at large.

It seems as though the members of the coffee church community who are currently seminary students or who have been see that both this traditional model of church and of teaching how to be the church has definitely not been effective. I would counter Frost and Hirsch’s question, “how have these tools reinvented us?” by saying that they have definitely served to reinvent members of coffee church. Reinvented? Most certainly, as the coffee church community seems to embrace a missional perspective which pervades itself throughout each gathering and in the lives of the members. Not reinvented in the traditional sense of the word but reinvented in the calling into question modern ways of doing things, eliciting post-modern thinking instead.

response to group blogs on a churchless faith.

Kyle.
“They were not locating the gospel or God in the traditional churches.”
What a sad commentary on our traditional churches. If the neither gospel nor God can be spotted here what is it they see?
“Answers are not always there. The traditional church likes to think of itself as the answer dispenser when the truth is that God doesn’t always give us answers.”
Why do we feel as though we ought to have answers—and who is this “we” I am referring to? Is it just the church, is it a generational thing, is a personality quirk, is it an issue of the past, an issue of the heart--pride? How true if we simply would embrace this fact and live discovering the answers.

Eric.
“…I appreciate deeply the difficulty and temptations that accompany the continual changing of dirty diapers, the cleaning of dirty faces, and the management of childish fits.”
I love this parallel of parenthood to those of us who serve as spiritual parents in a sense—or at least in helping to raise others spiritually. What an image of habitual sin, of sin that leaves its mark, and the loss of control we give up to Christ daily.
“We share testimony of how God is meeting us where we are at in the journey. We find ourselves encouraged and inspired by those stories shared….Others contribute and in so doing we walk through life together, sharing our journeys and discoveries together. In this way, there is permission for everyone to be where they are in their journey, but to entrust themselves to others who may be further along in the journey toward a Christ-like life.”
What beneficial time spent together. This type of participatory worship calls forth everyone to participate—either in sharing, in supporting, in listening, or in questioning how will his or her life be different as a result of what was shared.

Drew.
“They don’t feel like they fit into the church…however, they still consider themselves a part of the church because they haven’t fully withdrawn yet.”
What an awkward place in which to find oneself. I thought it was interesting to note that you identified several of your friends within the context of the four stages mentioned in Jamieson’s book. I wonder why these people have not completely left—I guess maybe they eventually will. Why is it that they haven’t fully withdrawn—what about the church keeps holding them?
“…but more importantly we will be able to be a community that disagrees yet still decides to be in community despite their disagreement because relationships are formed.”
I definitely think this is why you are still able to have contact with them and still be a part of their journey. I am left to wonder that if the church had established caring, trusting, and nurturing relationships with these individuals would they still leave or would their be the freedom to journey alongside them in the process—whether seeking new alternatives or living out their new identity.